What are my thoughts on religion? What about Spirituality vs Religion? In a world where there is a huge debate over Spirituality vs Religion, sometimes sharing your thoughts helps to spread light on why you do what you do.
So, what is Spirituality? Spirituality has several different meanings, but the definition I go by is this, an inner path enabling a person to discover the essence of his/her being; or the “deepest values and meanings by which people live.” This is why I love Spirituality, it allows you to discover yourself without the rules and regulations of Religion.
Why is this important to me? Why not follow a set of rules guided by a Religion? While it’s nice to have a set of rules to go by, one may not always agree with a certain aspect of their own Religions standpoint. How many times have you found something in your “Holy Bible” that you didn’t agree with. In fact, how many other people don’t agree with that, or at least debate over it frequently? Seriously? If you can’t come to a conclusion about what something means, then what’s the point?
With Spirituality I get to set my own rules to follow. Which is great, as long as I don’t break those rules. If I break those rules, then I’m no better than anyone else. That and that alone is what keeps Spiritual people in check, but why? Simple, we don’t want to be like everyone else. We choose to be our own person.
You see the other problem with Religion don’t you? Religion teaches you to be someone you’re not, while Spirituality encourages self discovery.
What about Religion? My thoughts are that Religion was created to control those who can’t control themselves. Have you ever wanted to go run that reckless driver off the road, that cut in front of you and nearly rand you off the road? Yeah, we’ve all been there, but here’s the thing, we don’t act upon our thoughts. Why? Fear. We fear the consequences of getting caught, going to prison, etc.
We’re better than that right? We’ve learned through lives own experience that if we do something wrong, then there are consequences.
I love how Religious people use the argument, “If there isn’t a God, then where do you get your Moral values from?” Let me ask you a question, If you’re wrong, then you’ll be the one going to “Hell” right? Fact, Life gives us Moral Values and a set of Guidelines to follow, not some “Holy Text,” which may or may not be the “Word of God.”
Again, Religious people use the phrase, “But it’s in the Bible and the Bible is the “Word of God.” My thoughts? Word of God? No! Inspired by God? Perhaps! More like, inspired by events that happened. Don’t get me wrong, there are things that you can learn from the Bible, but I don’t think one should take it literally.
But hey, who am I right? Just some random guy writing on his blog. Who knows, I could be wrong, you could be wrong, we could all be wrong. The answer might be much more simpler than we’re making it. Often times, it is. Food for Thought.
Now, before you start flaming me about not believing in a “God,” let me say something first. I’m not saying that there isn’t a God and I’m not saying that you’re wrong either. I won’t go that far. What is a fact though, is that we don’t know. We think we know, but in reality we don’t know. Now that’s food for thought.
While I will take the time and effort to at least listen to you and your thoughts, I think it’s important that we develop our own belief and realize that we’re all different. Only through understanding others, can we really begin to understand ourselves. Only then, will we be right.
Care to do your own blog post? Feel free to share your thoughts with us.
What a horrible post! You just go and burn Christianity as it’s the only religion out there. Is it the word of God? Yes it is! God inspired those writers to write that. and there if you have a Bible that put all the words of Jesus in red, there is shows what he said.
and why we don’t push cars off the road? Because of self control. Not because of fear, because of self control.
Why you don’t understand something in the Bible? Because you need to receive spiritual revelation to understand it.
and for the record, It’s not a religion, it’s a relationship!
First off, how can you have a relationship with something that which you can’t see?
Second, Religion and spirituality don’t mix. They’re not the same, they’re different. You can’t receive Spiritual Revelation and expect to understand the Bible. Just doesn’t work that way.
Third, I’m not trying to down Christianity, this is just my own thought. Reread the last part of the post. I’m merely comparing the two and showing why I chose my path.
Oh, and I might add, that I didn’t once mention Christianity, I’m merely comparing Religion vs Spirituality in General. As you can see from the post, many try to fit Religion in with Spirituality, when Religion teaches you how to live, while in Spirituality, you Learn how to live. Also, there are many Religions that claim that their Bible is the Word of God, not just Christianity.
I think he thought you were singling out Christianity because you mentioned the “Holy Bible”. I’m fairly certain that Christians are the only one to simply call they’re book the Holy Bible.
That makes sense, but when I say the “Holy Bible,” I’m referring to “Holy Text” in general. Every Religion claims they’re right, but they call can’t be right, so I choose to stay out of the Battle and follow my own path.
Why are you so angry?
He was just misunderstanding what I had wrote.
What if I said that all those rules in the Bible were simply pointing you a direction?
I, personally, follow Jesus and His teachings. I do not live by the countless (there’s actually a number, I just don’t know it) rules. I live by the commands that Jesus said were the most important: “‘And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” This is in Mark 12, verses 30 and 31. That is how I live.
Many “Christians” do think that to be a Christian, you have to live by the rules. It is not about the rules. It’s about loving other people.
I hope you don’t see this as a flame. Far from it. I just wanted to share.
I welcome you comments, that’s how we learn. I only have one issue with this comment.
“There is no other commandment greater than these.”
That’s merely an opinion and as stated in my post, that’s what makes us different. This is the exact reason why Religious Empires always fall. No two people think alike and we’ll always have our differences. Only when we separate those differences and learn to live together, will we be right.
I see why you have a problem with that part. I did not give full context. Jesus is saying that in response to a question of which commandments (in the Old Testament) were the greatest.
In response to your last paragraph: Learning to live together, I see that as love. I’ll say it right now, I love you. And because I love you, I’m not just flaming you and telling you “YOU’RE GOING TO HELL” or some other ridiculous statement. I completely respect what you are saying and respect that you will live your life the way you see fit. I may, or may not, agree with it, but I’m not going to beat you over the head with the Bible. We (Christians) are taught to love. The flamers aren’t doing this. Nor am I perfect at it.
Does that clarify things?
That clarifies things a bit. Thanks for the love, we all need to love each other more and stop fighting amongst ourselves. Because when you’re the last man standing, what have you accomplished?
With so many Religions out there, I choose to follow my own path. That’s why I stated at the end of my blog post, “We think we know, but in reality we don’t know.” Make sense now?
I’m also glad that you’re at least not following a mainstream Religion and decided to act for yourself. Props for that.
It absolutely makes sense. Even as a Christian, when we have so much “proof” we are still taking everything on faith. So we don’t 100% ‘know’.
And thanks for not just taking Christianity out and bashing it by itself. It seems to be the popular thing to do sometimes and I really respect that you are just looking at religion as a whole and not one specific one. Thanks.
I recently heard a sermon where the difference in Spirituality and Religion was discussed. The pastor said that if you make your own rules and “do your own thing,” you are actually breaking one of the commandments. That is because in your mind you are creating your own god. God doesn’t change to fit your image, so lets change god to fit our image of him. This is idolatry. Most people think that idolatry is making an idol out of something that you own or do. It is really about God. You cannot make your own rules. They are God’s rules to make. Do you think that the God of the Universe would bow down to your manufactured god? I don’t think you. I do know what you are thinking, because I once was in the same place. When God entered my life, I found out what joy is and how helping others makes me happy. After all, the only way to serve God is to serve others.
“I would rather live my life as if there was a God and die to find there isn’t, than to live my life like there was no God and die to find there is.? Albert Camus
The problem with that philosophy, is that we don’t know if there is a God or not. Books and Philosophy can tell us there is a God(s) all day long, but that still doesn’t make them true. Religion to this day has no evidence that there is a God. If there is one, they probably don’t want to be found, or want us to find them on our own.
If you want to believe that there is a God and that you’re serving the right God, then go ahead. I could so turn that quote around.
“I would rather not serve a God, than to serve a False God, thus breaking the rule of idolatry that you so speak of.”
The fact is, we don’t know the “Truth.” We think we do, but just because a book tells you something and someone says it’s the unspoken truth, you’re going to believe it?
I’ll stick with following my own path and doing the best I can.
Also, I’m not sure you’ve been down the same road I have, or at least understand it. Others have been down this road. My road is one that was raised in a Christian Family, I actually gave my life to Christ, then later, after much reading, much philosophical debate, and much logic. I decided to take a different path. My path isn’t for everyone and to each their own.
I just don’t follow a Religion or any set of rules. I follow what makes sense and live the best I can. If your God is the real God and wants to judge me for being cautious, then so be it. What if the Islamic God is the real God? What if the Buddhist God is the real God? Then I guess you won’t be getting into that heaven of yours. Follow your path, and I’ll follow mine.
I am an atheist who thinks all religions are ridiculous.
That’s fine, but I hope you at least respect others and their decisions?
As per my post Barry Gumm of eminance
An authority figure huh? Goes along with the one supreme God idea. As long as your happy with that.
Well did you ask him? there is so much to discuss. Like the Big Bang theory. Yes I believe Bang it came to being. But from what, if it all appeared after a big Bang, what was before the Big Bang? Where was all the “matter”? Only one logical answer. Unless someone has another thanks maorstuff for replying Have a Great Day and look forward to chatting with you more.
Haha, so much for a nice friendly discussion! I’m an atheist, I think that sums up my view of all religions pretty succinctly. As for spirituality, well I’m in awe of nature, the universe and all the beauty there in.
I’m going to play nice and not say any more for the moment!
Nice post thanks for sharing.
Glad to see your thoughts here. Respect for Nature is a great way to go. Only when we respect Nature and those around us, will we be able to see the truth, if there is one.
The problem I see with setting your own set of standards, or in other words, defining for yourself what a “sin” is, is that there will always be a better standard that you could be holding yourself to. This is because humans ar enot perfect. God is perfect, and He laid out a perfect explanation in the Bible of how we should conduct ourselves; therefore, any standards other (below) than what is in the Bible cannot be good enough.
If every man defines what it is to be moral, then I believe “morality” is without meaning–useless. There has to be a concrete model to follow. I follow the ten commandments.
Perfect rules of conduct according to who? I agree with you, I’m not Perfect, no one is. If God was Perfect, would he not have forseen the damage, the heartbreak that Mankind has brought this so called Perfect God? But hey, I’m just a random guy on the internet. To each their own.
I don’t like defining what I believe in, but if necessary, Agnostic would be the closest fit. I was raised in a Cathlic family that still observed the pre-Vatican II “adjustments” like meat on Friday and Latin mass. I received my first communion. I was confirmed. I even taught catechism. I was exposed to Southern Baptists living close enough to Billy Graham’s birthplace to walk there. I often jogged right past it. I went to the mega-churches. Eventually, I was even a eucharistic minister. Things for me changed though.
The older I got, the more I questioned. Almost invariably, the answer to any question was to have faith. If that didn’t satisfy me as an answer, I was having a crisis of faith and required prayer. Then I started actually seeing and living around the world. I was exposed to many religions. All were in most respects the same – just accept it on faith. For a scientist, that is difficult. I like evidence. I like a study I can duplicate. I need tangible proof.
I mention this only to demonstrate why my faith was so decimated. if God is love, and we are all his children, why as a gay person “living in sin” with my sames sex partner, was I excommunicated? I have read, studied and debated the Bible at length. I never saw, even in the version with the red letters, where jesus said homosexuality was a sin. I am the same person I ever was. Being HONEST, however, and stating I am gay made me unacceptable. Lesson that conveyed to me – lie. That’s not right.
Yes, I am aware not all faith systems are exactly the same, I ecplared Judaism. I studied Islam so I can speak on it without being an idiot, although I am far from an expert. I went to many of the different denominations of Christian faith – all 31 flavors if you will. I studied on Druidism, Wicca even Satanism just so I could understand it. In the end though, everything comes back to “have faith”. Believe it because a book that has been translated and mistranslated so many times that I believe in tells me so. That isn’t just the Bible BTW.
Faith is wonderful for those that can have it. I don’t begrudge anyone their belief. I am proud I helped some people grow in the Christian faith. I would never tell anyone to abandon their beliefs. For me, i need more than just believe in it. I am a person driven by the need for duplicable evidence. Show me the holes. Show me the 72 virgins. Replicate the miraculous. if I have faith in anything, it is science. Science provides me with answers. i can verify those answers. I can give theproblem to another person and they can get the same answer. I can’t say that about religion – not inany way that can be backed up with true empirical evidence that doesn’t start or begin with “the Bible says”, “Allah says,” “Yahweh…” you get the idea.
The best advice I ever got was to find someone I loved and love them. Find something I could believe in and carry that in my heart. Live by a simple rule – do good things. I didn’t need religion to develop a moral compass, and I feel sorry for those who need to be old what is right or wrong when it comes to basic human decency and kindness.
I couldn’t have said that better myself. I agree with you though, Science is an amazing thing, it offers us Proof. While Religion in general lacks evidence. They point to Nature and Us being Alive as Proof. That’s not Proof at all. I don’t want to just have faith in something that may or may not be there. That’s why I proceed with caution. I also agree that we should respect others and their beliefs. Helping others is what life is about, growth and sharing.
The thing is with all this you forgot one person, and that is ask God. I know he is real because I had a personal experience. If you want to know if God, God the Holy Spirit, Jesus the God is real, why don’t or why when he has been so close to you, have you not asked him?
My Personal experience is, I was born again and spoke in tonques (as i received the Holy Spirit) and still do. If you want sciptual references or more about this goto http://revampyourmind.com/?page_id=15 notice it says as the spirit gave them utterance or the ability to speak in another tonque of men or of angels.
So you want to know the truth the Seven pillars of wisdom (the other six are talked about in Edward Debono’s book Six Thinking Hats). The seven Edward and we cannot do in its entirety hense good discusions like these. If you want to know the Truth you have to ask him who knows the truth.
And if you do, Truth will answer you, and if you ask him for the proof of the Holy Spirit you will speak in another language of men or of an angels.
Then you will know in part the truth and the Truth shall set you free. You will know God, God the Holy Spirit and Jesus the God. (other titles are Son of Man, Son of God)
Your craving for the truth, purpose, spiritual satisfaction / knowledge will then be satisfied.
Therefore my answer to your blog is Ask him who can answer you, Ask God, ask him for his Holy Spirit and the evidence of him.
I could have gone into all the theories and mathamatics and all that, but lets keep it simple. Ask him who can, does and is answering you.
Regards
Barry Gumm http://www.revampyourmind.com and if you want to know more my email is barry@revampyourmind.com
I only have one question about that. How does one know that it’s not a random walking spirit that tries to speak to you? Even so called Lesser Spirits have the ability to control or possess humans. When you receive the Spirit, how do you know you’re not being possessed by some random spirit?
Also, I have asked Christ to come into my life once before, but I never experienced anything of dramatic proportion. I was once Christian, but I’m not any longer. Although I respect your choice, nothing you can say will change my mind.
Hello Roger,
Boy did you pick a dousy of a topic, but from what i have read so far , things are rather cool. I for one was born into a catholic family..which i dutifully followed until I started to ask questions which of course were either politely shunned or lambasted to glory with brim stone and fire. Now add the Asian factor in, which characteristics of obedience towards elders are drilled into you, 3rd generation mixed Asian and European bloods , A rather mixed up person. Well to make the story short, I was a passive rebel and now i have found a path, like you, i am more inclined towards spirituality rather than being religious. I show due respect to the respective authorities but that is it as far as it goes. Closed minds are just that. I found that with actual day to day practice of living the path.i.e. Not judging, being grateful , offering apology and the simple practice of breathing, I mostly am able to enjoy day to day. Granted I am only human for now, and i do fall off the horse once in awhile but generally I am grateful I am permitted to tune in with the vibrations of the universal force. Even 1 minute of this allows me to feel elated. I would not want to get involved in any debate about whose God is real because, I firmly believe GOD does not belong to any Religion. the term OMG “Oh My God’ is just a one-up-man-ship game. Well that is my 2 cents worth. Have a Great Week !!
My personal belief on what or who God is? I belief that there is Energy. Energy is the essence of all on the basic level. We’re all connected, that much Science has proven. Which is proof enough for my thoughts on God being Energy. We all come from this one source, that is why people share feelings, that is why when we know something is fact, we know it. That is why people have past memories, and can manipulate Objects and Nature.
Thanks for the comment.
I follow Spirituality, as religions appear to be selective or judging of people. It’s not our job to do God’s job, He is doing it very well, without our interference.
I couldn’t agree with you more. More love, less judging.
Moarstuff, I appreciate, not only your willingness to state your opinion on this topic, as although we are a free society with freedom of speech, I believe there are many that are scared to let the world know what they truely think. Some of the posts here reflect the critisims and critical judgement of people that are believers.
Any group that teaches an “Us and Them” mentality or says that you have to believe as I do to be saved, whole, forgiven or even considered by God, gives me the willys.
Also the fact that you engage each poster is great.
I happen to believe in the teachings of christ and every other teacher of positive spiritual growth.
I love the agnostic approach to everything. Believe it or not we, as humanity, do not have a clue what the truth is and anyone that says they do, well they just scare me and come off as untrustworthy.
I know what I know and don’t know what I don’t know and REALLY do not know what I do not know about what I do not know….
I understand the fear of the death and the afterlife and wanting to make sure you have a good place in the afterlife if it exists, but I more believe that if it does than by my deeds alone, I should be in a good place. I am also not fearful of death because, although I came from fear and lack, I now focus on gratitude and forgiveness and I have lived my life fully.
If you need rules to follow, because you may not be or are definately not sure if you know the difference between right and wrong, then there are many teachers and scholars that can help you define your path. Please do not define mine for me.
Thanks for your comment JW. I couldn’t agree with you more, I cringe at the fact that some people point to a book and claim that it’s the truth without any evidence. It’s just accepted by faith, although I do try my best to respect others and their choice to follow their own path. To each their own right? I also agree that there are good teachings out there from all Religions, but I don’t believe that Jesus was God in the Flesh and the Son of God, or that he was even the Son of God. According to many Religions, we’re all Children of “God(s).” Yet at the same time they discriminate. Who are we to judge?
I like the way you think. I believe it is best to be agnostic in all things. This allows you to keep your mind open, but I do not slight you your opinions, nor do I slight my own.
I just try to remember that they are just opinions and that I need to be able to not allow my ego to stop me from hearing a different view, that, in the end, may be right.
I am sure I would be one of the ones that sat on a beach in ancient times and with the evidence of seeing the planets fly around us and the ocean horizon flat, would have made the assumption and argued the science of the flat world being the center of the universe.
I can only wonder what great belief I have now that is totally of the F’ing wall, wrong, but is guiding my life daily… Things that make you go Hmmmmmmm?
Hi Roger,
Nice blog…good freeflow of thoughts, and candid.
Let me start by admitting i haven’t read all the previous comments yet, but I’m bookmarking this & coming back tomorrow since its past 2:30 in the morning.
Next, I noticed you seem to have a sense of morality based on fear of punishment, as you mentioned above. Fear of punishment makes you not run over the idiot who cut you off, you said. That’s an interesting point you made. I remember reading quite a bit on Kohlberg’s research on why people develop morals.
Kohlberg lived in New York in the Bronx, I believe, and was quite wealthy. He did studies on kids and presented this story to them:
Heinz Steals the Drug
In Europe, a woman was near death from a special kind of cancer. There was one drug that the doctors thought might save her. It was a form of radium that a druggist in the same town had recently discovered. The drug was expensive to make, but the druggist was charging ten times what the drug cost him to make. He paid $200 for the radium and charged $2,000 for a small dose of the drug. The sick woman’s husband, Heinz, went to everyone he knew to borrow the money, but he could only get together about $ 1,000 which is half of what it cost. He told the druggist that his wife was dying and asked him to sell it cheaper or let him pay later. But the druggist said: “No, I discovered the drug and I’m going to make money from it.” So Heinz got desperate and broke into the man’s store to steal the drug-for his wife. Should the husband have done that? (Kohlberg, 1963, p. 19)
Kohlberg was not interested in whether the subject said “yes” or “no” to this dilemma but in the reasoning behind the answer. The interviewer wanted to know why the subject thought Heinz should or should not have stolen the drug. The interviewer then asked new questions which help one understand the child’s reasoning. For example, children are asked if Heinz had a right to steal the drug, if he was violating the druggist’s rights, and what sentence the judge should give him once he was caught. Once again, the main concern was with the reasoning behind the answers. The interview then went on to give more dilemmas in order to get a good sampling of a subject’s moral thinking.
Well, Kohlberg’s conclusions were pretty good, in my humble opinion. I liked the work because the questions were questions that had no right or wrong answer, and couldn’t really be answered by someone using a Bible or rulebook. They required a person to decide based on their own heart-felt morality.
Kohlberg came up with a nice little chart that describes stages of moral development. He believed that most people only progressed to the level of “Law & Order,” which agrees with your statement above. His chart can be found at this link: http://www.usefulcharts.com/psychology/kohlberg-stages-of-moral-development.html
My personal opinion, and the way I try to live, is based on the 6th stage: Universal principles of morality. Here, let me say, I try to seperate morality from religion as a discussion point, because as you well know, they are two seperate things. A moral person is not always religious, and a religious person is not always moral. This agrees with Kohlberg, too, as he noted that we don’t always operate in the same stage consistantly. But, I have noted that I tend to hold my own moral standards, regardless of what anyone else is believing, and regardless of the laws of the land. One example of each is abortion and interracial marriages. The first is legal but immoral, in my opinion. The second is “frowned upon” by many people in society and even by many religious people, yet I believe it is not only moral and fine, but I see cases in the Bible where God defended interracial couples from prejudiced religious people., like Moses & his wife, when they were criticized by his sister Miriam.
Now, to my belief on the subject of religion vs. Spirituality. I have to ask you a question first. What do you need that Spirituality stuff for? If it is helping you know who you already are, maybe i can understand that. But, can’t you know who you are without any external help? Why do you need anything to tell you who you are?
I see religion as an external system or form of finding truth and God, a higher truth than oneself. I see Spirituality as true faith, the inside belief in the heart and soul. I know who I am already. I don’t need some shaman, or spiritualist, or religious teacher to tell me who I am. I want someone to tell me if their is a God. I want to know how I can know Him, and communicate with Him. I want to know why I am on this Earth. My faith in God, the “total package” of religion and spirituality, answer those questions for me.
Another great thinker, Maslow, wrote about the Hierarchy of Needs…he was a humanist. One of those needs is self-actualization. That is a great need for me. I don’t want to be just who I am. I want to be better than I am, better than I ever thought I could be. Change is not a problem for me. I have changed repeatedly throughout my life. I believe we are reinvented, re-created often, throughout our lives.
But, those are just my thoughts about your post.
Thanks for sharing.
Vicky Hi Roger,
Nice blog…good freeflow of thoughts, and candid.
Let me start by admitting i haven’t read all the previous comments yet, but I’m bookmarking this & coming back tomorrow since its past 2:30 in the morning.
Next, I noticed you seem to have a sense of morality based on fear of punishment, as you mentioned above. Fear of punishment makes you not run over the idiot who cut you off, you said. That’s an interesting point you made. I remember reading quite a bit on Kohlberg’s research on why people develop morals.
Kohlberg lived in New York in the Bronx, I believe, and was quite wealthy. He did studies on kids and presented this story to them:
Heinz Steals the Drug
In Europe, a woman was near death from a special kind of cancer. There was one drug that the doctors thought might save her. It was a form of radium that a druggist in the same town had recently discovered. The drug was expensive to make, but the druggist was charging ten times what the drug cost him to make. He paid $200 for the radium and charged $2,000 for a small dose of the drug. The sick woman’s husband, Heinz, went to everyone he knew to borrow the money, but he could only get together about $ 1,000 which is half of what it cost. He told the druggist that his wife was dying and asked him to sell it cheaper or let him pay later. But the druggist said: “No, I discovered the drug and I’m going to make money from it.” So Heinz got desperate and broke into the man’s store to steal the drug-for his wife. Should the husband have done that? (Kohlberg, 1963, p. 19)
Kohlberg was not interested in whether the subject said “yes” or “no” to this dilemma but in the reasoning behind the answer. The interviewer wanted to know why the subject thought Heinz should or should not have stolen the drug. The interviewer then asked new questions which help one understand the child’s reasoning. For example, children are asked if Heinz had a right to steal the drug, if he was violating the druggist’s rights, and what sentence the judge should give him once he was caught. Once again, the main concern was with the reasoning behind the answers. The interview then went on to give more dilemmas in order to get a good sampling of a subject’s moral thinking.
Well, Kohlberg’s conclusions were pretty good, in my humble opinion. I liked the work because the questions were questions that had no right or wrong answer, and couldn’t really be answered by someone using a Bible or rulebook. They required a person to decide based on their own heart-felt morality.
Kohlberg came up with a nice little chart that describes stages of moral development. He believed that most people only progressed to the level of “Law & Order,” which agrees with your statement above. His chart can be found at this link: http://www.usefulcharts.com/psychology/kohlberg-stages-of-moral-development.html
My personal opinion, and the way I try to live, is based on the 6th stage: Universal principles of morality. Here, let me say, I try to seperate morality from religion as a discussion point, because as you well know, they are two seperate things. A moral person is not always religious, and a religious person is not always moral. This agrees with Kohlberg, too, as he noted that we don’t always operate in the same stage consistantly. But, I have noted that I tend to hold my own moral standards, regardless of what anyone else is believing, and regardless of the laws of the land. One example of each is abortion and interracial marriages. The first is legal but immoral, in my opinion. The second is “frowned upon” by many people in society and even by many religious people, yet I believe it is not only moral and fine, but I see cases in the Bible where God defended interracial couples from prejudiced religious people., like Moses & his wife, when they were criticized by his sister Miriam.
Now, to my belief on the subject of religion vs. Spirituality. I have to ask you a question first. What do you need that Spirituality stuff for? If it is helping you know who you already are, maybe i can understand that. But, can’t you know who you are without any external help? Why do you need anything to tell you who you are?
I see religion as an external system or form of finding truth and God, a higher truth than oneself. I see Spirituality as true faith, the inside belief in the heart and soul. I know who I am already. I don’t need some shaman, or spiritualist, or religious teacher to tell me who I am. I want someone to tell me if their is a God. I want to know how I can know Him, and communicate with Him. I want to know why I am on this Earth. My faith in God, the “total package” of religion and spirituality, answer those questions for me.
Another great thinker, Maslow, wrote about the Hierarchy of Needs…he was a humanist. One of those needs is self-actualization. That is a great need for me. I don’t want to be just who I am. I want to be better than I am, better than I ever thought I could be. Change is not a problem for me. I have changed repeatedly throughout my life. I believe we are reinvented, re-created often, throughout our lives.
But, those are just my thoughts about your post.
Thanks for sharing.
Vicky
http://www.reason2believehim.com
I think the problem with most people is, they really don’t know who they are. Even if they think they do. It’s like the Food For Thought thing, “We think we know, but we don’t know.” Many people feel lost or unsure about themselves and have to do self discovery. I see Self Discovery as a new way of opening doors. I see it as a way of really knowing me on a deeper level. Not just on the surface. That’s why I follow spirituality.
You seem pretty sure you know that we don’t know. I wonder how you can know that with such certainity? And, if we are always changing, why bother with all the repeated incursions into Self-discovery? Why not just jump into life and live it? It is short, in the grand scheme of things. Or do you believe in a grand scheme? Maybe it is all just an accident. If so, why analyze yourself so much? And, what about the poor and disenfanchised in soceity? What has the great one world done for them? Our town is small I grant you, and it doesn’t have a one-world soup kitchen or outreach center for those who are suffering to stop by. But here in this little town, we have more churches than I have counted. And, the poor and homeless often call up for food, shelter, help, provisions to survive. I’m glad “religion” per se has sparked people to do something to help their fellow man. Of course, I have known some church planters, and neither of them were very busy analyzing themselves. They were too busy roofing, and swinging a hammer.
I see it doubled the post. Wow! I think that happened because I dind’t have a java view of the page. It was a no frills type page when i typed in my answer, and I noticed it wouldn’t let me choose my login correctly. But, now that it posted, I get a clean page. How’s that for internet. ordpress is not my account of choice for these reasons. I blog on my website at weebley http://www.reason2believehim.com I am trying to share it across to wordpress, and am months behind over here. If oyu want to follow me live, up to date just check me out on my own domain. Thanks Roger.
Thanks for the link. I’ll be sure to check it out. I believe that by reading others thoughts, we understand more and are not afraid as much.
Reblogged this on Ransae's Blog.
Thanks for the Reblog.
You just said what i couldn’t for a long time.
That’s great, glad you agree with me.
My pleasure:-)
Reblogged this on Allt om inget men ändå nåt.
Thanks for Reblogging this.
I’m afraid this wont be popular, but I am an athiest and I believe that a benevolvent God will not fault me, once I die – for not believing in a guy who never proved his existence.
I can’t help but to agree with you. If there is a God and it is truly Benevolent, then he/she will accept us for who we are. The fact that we decided to not get into this whole Religious fiasco of who’s right and who’s wrong, that has to say something in itself. A Benevolent God who loves all, but hates Sin? I doubt that’s Benevolent.
Clearly you are seeking answers, otherwise why doth thou protest so much? I’m not leaving my thoughts here, as your not open as you propose.
On the contrary. I’m from a Christian Family and I respect others choice to follow their own path. However, if you want to throw Scripture at me as though it’s the “Unspoken Truth” or the “Word of God,” then don’t expect a light comment. Clearly these people are trying to convince me otherwise. While I respect your opinion to believe in a certain Religion, respect is a two way street. Feel free to voice your opinion, but don’t act like I don’t know anything about Religion or that I’m “Going to Hell.” Being from a Religious Family and having learned all that I have and having a free voice, I’ve chosen my path. But by understanding others and their thought process, we can learn more about the world.
Every religion starts with a religious leader. And all were started with pure intentions. Because of the law of entropy all have become diluted. A spiritual connection can be between you and the Highest Source of Energy, whom we call God or Allah. You can do that inside or outside a religion. Religion just means path. The goal is the same.
I agree, Religious Journeys should be done from within, not outward. If you want to share your thoughts and help others achieve greatness and inspire others. I respect that. But basing something merely on faith and teaching it as truth, that’s something I don’t like, although I still try my best to respect others decisions. They’re not me after all.
I have little use for the notion that I should do good things in the hopes of gaining reward – regardless of whether that reward is temporal or some promise of heavenly bliss. The doing of good things is its own reward; the knowledge that you have helped, somehow.
Equally, I have little use for the notion that if I don’t understand something, the explanation must be some invisible agent which has intelligence and human emotional attributes like love, jealousy, beauty, anger. This is the fundamental postulate that lies behind all deism. There is no religion which does not, in some way, rely on the stipulation of attributes and/or entities which cannot be proven to exist.
Consequently, I’m an atheist.
I’d like to believe in the persistence of identity. It’s a comforting thought. But there’s no evidence for it. So I do the best I can to add love and beauty and careful thought to the world, hope to leave it in better condition than I found it, and if, after I am off this ride, I find that I can somehow take another turn…well, then, that’s wonderful too.
Either way, whatever persistence or immortality I may attain, I expect to attain it through leaving a lasting mark on the world; planting seeds which will grow and bear fruit long after I have left the fields. By the evidence to day, that’s about the best and most noble and honorable thing any of us can hope for. Since I like to think I have some nobility and honor to me, that’s where I direct my energy.
That’s an awesome response. In reality, that is how we all should live our lives. Trying to better the world and leaving it in a better spot than when we arrived. This comments reminds me of an article of a guy in China who planted an entire Forest by himself over a 30 year period. Why did he do that? There was a sandbar that would flood and because there was no cover for the animals that washed up, such as snakes and lizards, they would die in the heat. Now, after 30 years, there is an enitre ecosystem. He even brought in ants to do their part and have a healthy ecosystem.
I’m interested in spirituality too, although I’m atheist.
My atheism has little to do with refuting the beliefs of Christianity though, or the fact that I think evolution is true.
It’s simply a “lack of belief in a God”.
In recent years I’ve ended up in some of these discussions. People would say “But you’re atheist, you don’t believe anything” which is wrong. Or, my favorite “If you’re wrong you’re screwed, if I’m wrong nothing happens”
Which is not true either, that’s just their poor imagination
It seems to be a very sensitive subject for the theists. It’s like many of them can’t stand the fact that someone exists that are comfortable with thinking there is nothing but mundane in the world. It’s detestable to them, and that’s probably because they’re not certain either but just have “hope”. I don’t believe anyone who says they “know” there is a God, any more than I believe someone saying they know there is none.
I’ve come up with an argument against the former, I’ll say I KNOW there is no God right here, now. Because what I see in the Now I wouldn’t define as God.
And who is in charge of the definition?
I had to laugh at your comment. The part about “if I’m wrong, then nothing happens.”
You’re right about that, it’s not very true and that’s a delusion of their own mindset. It’s a favorite arguement of theirs. Because I say, “If you’re wrong, then that means someone else is right. What then?”
This is what they call following a Religion blindly. You think you know the way, but you don’t really. You just hope it’s the way.
Conversations With God…
it said, don’t believe a word, if it feels right or jells with you, then good…it is the most empowering of all the belief systems I’ve ever examined. Some say the bible was inspired by god, maybe the same with these books but 2000 years after the bible…its easier to read too lol.
Thanks for letting me rant. Richcat.
I have to say that I’m one of those who believe that the Bible was Inspired by God. Not exactly the Word of God, but the existence of a Greater Power. I believe the Bible was Inspire by that Power to try to explain something that can’t be explain. Or can it?
I agree though, go with what feels right. Right now, Religion doesn’t feel right too me. I believe that the Religious Journey should be a Solo One, not a Social One. Religion has made it Socialable. People go to Church to meet people and have fun on Sundays. Yeah, some of them actually go for the message, but most just go because it’s the Social Norm.
Thanks for providing a space for discussion. I’m an atheist and live with lovely people, beautiful nature, and vibrant society. That’s it. No more, no less.
I think it’s important to surround yourself with Lovely People and Beautiful Nature. What ever that happens to be to you. We’re all different and until we learn that and quit trying to get others to believe what we believe, we’ll just be a waring type of people.
My thought, spiritual or religious belief is a great guidelines on how we live, but those beliefs are nothing if we don’t put it in to action.
I couldn’t have said that better myself. There are many so called Religious people who only make a half effort to follow their Religion. If you only made a Half Attempt at a blog and promoting it, do you think you’d get very many readers or visitors? Don’t think so, regularity and focus is what gets you ahead and where you need to go.
The problem with religious folks is they think their words are from God which God himself can’t prove or disprove. How do we know words out of a pastor or priest are really those from God? No one will ever know. “Holy text” were written by some people as well, just a couple of thousands years ago.
I agree with that, we don’t know, yet people will still point to Holy Text and claim that they’re the unspoken truth, the Word of God. Only in their eyes. I see it as a Book that was written by Mankind. Don’t get me wrong, there are many things you can learn from all Religions. Ecclectic, that’s what I would call myself. Borrowing from all Belief Systems and living the best I can.
I agree that Religions have many rules to restrict human’s behavior, but some also fool people to not trust science and facts. That makes them really stupid.
I couldn’t agree with you more. Science has proven that we’re all connected, that we share a link with each other. How does Religion explain that?
I’m pretty much in agreement with what you’ve written here and in your replies. In the spirit of being argumentative, the only thing I’d question is how far we need to respect the decisions of the religious?
Certainly as far as it is personal choice and respectful to others, yes, all our personal choices deserve respect. What I often see though, on the part of the religious, is the expectation that our respect for their right to their beliefs should include a respect for their belief to impose their beliefs on everybody. Two highly relevant examples of that unreasonable insistence are: attempting to legislate that public school science teachers teach magical (illogical, not based on evidence) “alternatives” to actual science, and seeking to deny LGBT community the right to marry or enjoy civil unions with the same same universally recognized rights and responsibilities as “traditional marriage”.
Not all religious people attempt to have their version of morality enforced by legislation; however, a vocal (powerful, and largely successful) group do, and use the legitimate need for “religious liberty” as a cloak for their authoritarian desires to control the behavior of others.
Respect is a two-way street — when a person’s religious beliefs lead them to be disrespectful of the rights of others, then our respect for that person’s religiously motivated actions is no longer warranted.
Exactly, there is a saying, “Where another person’s rights begin, yours end.” In other words, it’s all about respect, like you said. I don’t want personal Belief Systems and Scripture Quotes thrown at me. They say, “The Word is sharper than a Two Edged Sword.” Yeah, if you’re threatening and downing someone for no apparent reason. Religion in general has little logic, except for what the Religious Founders Teach. Yet, how many actually follow those teachings?
I am an Atheist . I think religion gave people a sense of community and belonging (1 of many reasons religion exists) I believe now we can have the sense of a global community and not need religion. The hardest problem is that people have problems with not believing in no god as the world is unjust, and God “balances” the world so that there will be justice. We create justice in our society, we may never achieve true equality and justice as horrible things will still happen to people, it is a reality, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t attempt to achieve the most just/equal society for all living things that we can achieve.
Another great point. We should strive for eqaulity and just for all. I believe that Social Media will help bridge those gaps together and many Religions will fall all over the world. Every great Religion has fallen. Sure, some will argue that Christianity or Islam is still around and going strong, but how long were the Samaritans around before they fell? Religion is an opinion, a system taken on Faith alone. Sure, Faith is a great thing to have. I have Faith in myself to achieve greatness and help others do the same. I have Faith in the Universe and that it’ll be around for a very long time. I have Faith in Nature and the Cycles of the Earth. But taking someone’s opinion that this is the Truth, just doesn’t ride with me. I don’t feel the vibe there.
Religion is man made. Some have said to me, the creator does not need religion, we humans need it to connect. I think, one can beleive in what they wish too or not beleive in what they wish too. In the end, does it matter?
I agree, what does it really matter in the end? We all think we’re right, but we’re all actually wrong. If we were right, then there wouldn’t be wars and people starving in the streets. Everyone would have equal rights to do what they need and the wealthy wouldn’t have a need to Destory the Earth to get what they want. Don’t get me wrong, there are legitimate wealthy people. In fact, the Interenet is one of the best ways to get wealthy nowadays.
I believe in god but I don’t believe in religion, religion has its roots in some guy thinking it would be better to stay in the village with the women than go hunting, I’ll stay here and tomorrow I’ll make the sun come up etc.
God never started a war, incited hatred or burnt anyone alive, that was religion.
You might be onto something. Religion is full of accounts of people claiming to have Spoken to God and people are Gullible, they’ll believe just about anything you tell them. How do you know they actually Spoke to God? I’m sorry, but I’m not taking that one on Faith.